UPDATE: Read also this Compilation of blog posts on incompetence and harm caused by Martin Pall
…this post was updated, see at the bottom…
…this post was updated with supportive comment from George L. Carlo, see at the end…
On October 4, 2019, in Mainz, Germany, I heard lecture by Martin L. Pall.
The lecture was full of the usual for him scaremongering that can be read in his review publications on EMF. For those unfamiliar with publications of Martin L. Pall, his first review on EMF was published some 6 years ago. Since then he published some 7-8 review papers on EMF. What is important to note is that:
- Pall has never performed any experimental research on EMF effects, his published papers on EMF are solely reviews of experimental works performed by others,
- Pall has never presented his “findings” in real scientific conferences such as e.g. yearly BioEM meetings organized by two bioelectromagnetics societies, he presents solely in meetings organized by EMF activists. This should make anyone wonder why, for the last 6 years when Pall begun to publish his reviews, he never went to real scientific meeting but presents his lectures solely to activist audiences.
Just two examples, of the more extreme, scaremongering comments in Pall’s lecture in Mainz:
- in 2 years from now, if wireless networks will not be switched off immediately, people will become sterile and reproduction of human kind will cease
- in 5 – 7 years from now human brains will degenerate to the degree that normal functioning of human brain will cease
Precisely the same scaremongering opinions Martin L. Pall has presented today, on October 8, 2019, in an event organized by Eeva-Johanna Eloranta at the Parliament of Finland.
Scaremongering is one of the problems of Martin L. Pall’s lectures. There is no support for such far reaching claims in any to-date published research.
However, the even bigger problem than scaremongering, is Martin L. Pall’s ignorance in respect of the physical properties of the millimeter waves. The millimeter waves will be used in the near future by the 5G networks and Martin L. Pall lectures around the world on safety of the 5G.
When I heard for the first time, in Mainz, the opinion presented by Pall on millimeter waves’ penetration depth, I wondered how it is possible that Pall expresses such completely incorrect opinion.
However, he has presented exactly the same opinion in his lecture in Helsinki, on October 8, 2019.
Here is what Marin L. Pall said about the depth of penetration of the millimeter waves into human body and what justification he has for the claim.
According to Martin L. Pall (quote directly from Pall’s slide):
“5G millimeter wave effects penetrate at least 20 times more deeply than the industry claims possible.”
The scientific justification provided by Martin L. Pall is that, there are effects of millimeter waves observed deep inside the human body, for example in brain. It means, and Pall spelled it out in his lectures, that in order to induce effects in human brain the millimeter waves have to penetrate through hair on the head, through skin and through skull in order to reach the brain and exert effects.
To recap: according to Professor emeritus Martin L. Pall, millimeter waves are able to penetrate through hair, skin and bone of the skull.
This is not only incorrect but this is scientific scandal of major proportions when Professor emeritus Martin L. Pall does not know properties of millimeter waves. Furthermore, his scaremongering musings about EMF and the doom of human kind (e.g. cessation of human fertility and cessation of human brain function in a matter of few years) are another scientific scandal of major proportions.
Effects of millimeter waves on brain were observed in some animal studies. US-Russian research team of Marvin C. Ziskin executed number of such animal studies. However, the effects on brain were induced not because millimeter waves penetrated into the brain, because they cannot do it. In these experiments animals were exposed on skin and in special way to avoid fur areas because millimeter waves do not penetrate through fur (and dense hair). Animals were exposed:
- nose area that is devoid of fur
- area of skin was shaven to expose skin
- used animals were mutants and had no fur (so called nude mice)
This way, by exposing directly skin, millimeter waves caused generation by the skin cells of molecular mediators that were released and distributed via blood circulation to e.g. brain where the exerted some effects.
Millimeter waves can penetrate only epidermis and parts of dermis, no deeper. They can not penetrate through hair/fur, through subcutaneous tissue, through bone of skull. This is physical fact, not matter of interpretation.
**************
Supportive of my opinion, comment from Dr. George L. Carlo (posted on BRHP blog at 2:36am on Oct. 9, 2019) [emphasis added DL]:
Dariusz: Hope all going well. Sorry to miss you in Mainz. Your summary slide was right on the mark. Also, I could not agree more with you about Martin Pall’s knowledge base. This is an example of misrepresenting the science that discredits the group. I have never met or spoken with him, so don’t know if he is correctable…. Hopefully, your piece is a wake-up call. Let’s catch up by phone some time. G_________________Dr. George L. Carlo, Washington, D.C.
************************
The mentioned by George L. Carlo “…your summary slide was right on the mark…” refers to the slide that I presented in Mainz and thereafter posted on social media. The slide summarized what we know about the 5G and health. This 5G summary slide is added here, to this blog post.
Photo credit: Marc Arazi
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As I wrote in response to your comment earlier today:
“…
dariuszleszczynski on May 2, 2020 at 13:04 said:
You clearly do not distinguish between what I wrote on science and what I wrote on scaremongering by Pall and Firstenberg. Read this blog so you might understand… though I doubt it…
https://wp.me/pBbF9-1fK
This post is about Pall. Consider text before the blue highlighted sentence and then the blue highlighted sentence. Text before blue sentence is about scaremongering fake science. Blue sentence refers to science.
…”
I do not intend to copy/paste here the blog…
There is no need for me or anyone else to read a blog in order for you to answer a question.
READ MY BLOG
Dariusz: “(not VGCC but the reminder of the stuff)”
Reminder? Do you mean remainder?
Just using the proper name for the fake science spread by Pall and Firstenberg (not VGCC but the reminder of the stuff)
No, you didn’t. You didn’t say what accusing a person of having “crackpot wacko ideas” should be called if not bashing.
I did and, as I suspected, you didn’t understand it. Take off your “activist hat” and think independently for a moment… then you might understand what I wrote in the blog I sent to you https://wp.me/pBbF9-1fK
Why are you not answering my question, Dariusz?
You clearly do not distinguish between what I wrote on science and what I wrote on scaremongering by Pall and Firstenberg. Read this blog so you might understand… though I doubt it…
https://wp.me/pBbF9-1fK
This post is about Pall. Consider text before the blue highlighted sentence and then the blue highlighted sentence. Text before blue sentence is about scaremongering fake science. Blue sentence refers to science.
Dariusz: “Calling pointing a major error in Pall’ thinking as name calling or bashing is wrong.”
Well, well; what then, should we call the following?:
Dariusz: […] Pall and Firstenberg are responsible because their crackpot wacko ideas […]”
If this is a statement of understanding an error then you, Mr Lozo and Mr Joahasson are living in another universe… some activist-echo-chamber
“Dr. Lozo:
Your interpretation means that the industry claim is much more ludicrous than I was stating. The industry, as you know, has predicted that millimeter waves can only produce effects in the out one millimeter of the body. According to your interpretation, millimeter waves are producing effects on the human hand that produce, in turn, effects on the human brain something like a meter away.
That, of course completely and utterly destroys the industry prediction.
Martin Pall”
Clearly Martin Pall did not admit any error.
Peter: “However, the nature of his response suggested to me that he has recognised the error in his understanding of that experiment and its results.”
OK, thanks; that is good.
Peter: “However, I won’t be party to namecalling or bashing a person because of an error in their understanding of a scientific paper.”
I understand and agree.
And, btw, Pall didn’t admit an error. He just said that your interpretation means industry is even worse than what he said.
No admission of error by Dr. Pall whatsoever.
Calling pointing a major error in Pall’ thinking as name calling or bashing is wrong. But you are amateur here.
Magnus,
Dr Pall replied. I didn’t ask him a single question. I just offered my opinion in the last paragraph of the email (as posted here earlier today).
However, the nature of his response suggested to me that he has recognised the error in his understanding of that experiment and its results. Personally, I don’t see a need for pursuing this particular matter further with him. What
Dariusz decides to do is up to him. However, I won’t be party to namecalling or bashing a person because of an error in their understanding of a scientific paper.
Dariusz: “Yes, Dr. Pall responded to Dr. Lozo.”
OK, so what was his response?
Yes, Dr. Pall responded to Dr. Lozo.
No, Dr. Pall didn’t comment explicitly on Dr. Lozo’s statement. No, Dr. Pall did not admit that he has made an evident error, as pointed out by opinion of Dr Lozo.
I have sent message to Dr. Pall asking him to address Dr. Lozo’s statement and to provide evidence for Dr. Pall’s claim that mmWaves penetrate through skull into the brain tissue.
I am awaiting Dr. Pall’s response.
This comment was updated for accuracy on 3.05.20
Peter: “I emailed Dr Pall (cc to Dr Dariusz Leszczynski). I won’t reproduce the content of the whole email here but, in the interest of the readers of this blog, I am providing a copy (spell-corrected version) of the email’s last paragraph:”
Thanks, Peter. Interesting to see if you get a reply from Martin Pall.
I emailed Dr Pall (cc to Dr Dariusz Leszczynski). I won’t reproduce the content of the whole email here but, in the interest of the readers of this blog, I am providing a copy (spell-corrected version) of the email’s last paragraph:
“It is clear to me that the experiment was targeting a localised region on the subject’s hand, and that the detected changes in the EEG was as a result of the central nervous system detecting the activation of the sensory neurons in the skin that was targeted by the 7.1 mm EMF. I am therefore of the opinion that the referenced Russian study doesn’t support your interpretation that the response seen in the EEG was as a result of the millimeter continuous wave EMF penetrating the hair, skin, skull and meninges surrounding the brain.”
If Pall’s claim was based on the Russian study by Levedeva, listed in CIA Report then, just reading the study, it was not possible at all to make such misrepresentation/misinterpretation as to mm-waves penetration through skin and skull into the brain tissue.
If Pall’s claim was based on the Russian study by Levedeva, listed in CIA Report then, just reading the study, it was not possible at all to make such misrepresentation/misinterpretation as to mm-waves penetration through skin and skull into the brain tissue.
If Pall’s claim was based on the Russian study by Levedeva, listed in CIA Report then, just reading the study, it was not possible at all to make such misrepresentation/misinterpretation as to mm-waves penetration through skin and skull into the brain tissue.
Wow, again…
Dariusz: “Let me do what I wish to do.”
Well, that depends on what you wish to do.
Dariusz — You’re welcome. Was that surprising to realize since you write “Wow”?
Wow, thank you.
You do whatever you wish do.
Let me do what I wish to do.
Dariusz — In what way is Peter and my discussion not meaningful? Are we not doing the job you should already have done?
Yes, but not this brief exchanges as you do now. Find out what you need and then publish meaningful comment.
Dariusz — Don’t you want a clarifying discussion here in the comments?
Peter Lozo, you are correct.
You just confirmed what Iwrote in my blog about Pall’s lack of knowledge.
Martin Pall’s repeated claim of millimeter waves penetrating through skin and skull into the brain was absolutely FALSE.
Surprisingly, until I wrote about it in my blog, NOBODY was paying attention to this falsehood.
And not surprisingly, I was condemned by activists as I dared to say that Martin Pall doesn’t know basics.
Magnus,
My interpretation of what Dr Pall wrote is as follows:
because there were detectable changes in the EEG that therefore the central nervous system was activated by EMF that penetrated the hair, the skull, etc.
My interpretation of the mentioned experiment and the results is as follows:
the detectable change in the EEG was caused by the activated sensory neurons in the skin that was targeted by the mm EMF.
I claim that Dr Pall misinterpreted the experiment and the results of the experiment. I also claim that therefore he isn’t entitled to claim , at least on the basis of the mentioned experiment, that the mm EMF penetrated the hair, the skull, etc,
It might be easier to discuss with Magnus via e-mail
It might be easier to discuss with Peter via e-mail.
Peter: “You will find the relevant paper in that document. From memory, I think it is within the first 30 pages. If I recall correctly, it is a 7 page paper.”
The paper is on pages 17-21 in the document.
Peter — Does Martin Pall mean that the EEG changes recorded in the experiment could not have been the result of the radiation hitting the hands only?
Magnus,
You will find the relevant paper in that document. From memory, I think it is within the first 30 pages. If I recall correctly, it is a 7 page paper.
The document I tried to link to in my previous comment is called “The Effects of Electromagnetic Radiation on Biological Systems: Current Status in the Former Soviet Union” and it is compiled by Edwin C May and Laura V Faith, 26 February 1993.
Magnus,
Yes.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t appear that the paper was published in a peer reviewed journal. I couldn’t find any reference to where it was published.
Please note that the device used needed to be held close to the targeted area of the hand.
My interpretation of the experiment and the results differs to Dr Pall’s interpretation.
Dr Peter Lozo: “He [Martin Pall] referred to this paper:
Levedeva NN, Reactions of the central nervous system to peripheral effects of low-intensity EHF emissions. Approved for release 2000/08/10: CIA-RDP96-00792R000100070001-9.”
Thanks, Peter. Is this the document where the paper can be found?:
Click to access CIA-RDP96-00792R000100070001-9.pdf
But it is not what Pall claimed in his numerous writings and lectures.
I know, he said the same sentence (he memorized it well), more or less in exact the same form in his lectures. It was said in kind of ‘gotcha’ way – industry has been caught… Apart of the fact that it was just a single study, I would like to hear from the man himself, what caused Pall to make this claim, confirming my opinion that he doesn’t know what he is talking about. How many similar false claims are in his loooooong texts?
The Russian study on which Dr Pall based his opinion did not detect direct activation of the CNS by the 7.3 mm EMF. The CNS was activated by the sensory neurons in the skin of the hand that was radiated by the EMF.
This is what Dr Pall wrote:
“The human study (second paper) was an EEG study where electrical activity in the brain was being monitored. Here for the low intensity millimeter continuous wave EMF exposure to have effects, must penetrate the hair, skin, skull and meninges surrounding the brain. Again, in humans effects are found at least 20 times deeper than the industry claims is possible.”
See bottom of page 27 of this online report:
“Eight Repeatedly Documented Findings Each Show that EMF Safety Guidelines Do Not Predict Biological Effects and Are, Therefore Fraudulent: The Consequences for Both Microwave Frequency Exposures and Also 5G”
He referred to this paper:
Levedeva NN, Reactions of the central nervous system to peripheral effects of low-intensity EHF emissions. Approved for release 2000/08/10: CIA-RDP96-00792R000100070001-9.
I would rather listen to what Pall has to say, not what some other person is second guessing what Pall understood or Pall misunderstood…
Angela, whoever you are…
Just one quote from your long litany, clearly indicates that you are talking a complete nonsense when you are referring to very clever Chinese that are and will avoid millimeter waves in 5G because they know this radiation is damaging:
“Aside from in Wuhan, China does not have MMWave, nor are they using the 26-28 GHz band that Huawei needed for IoT, so they will not have full 5G anyway. Not long ago China said they won’t have 5G until 2030. I don’t think they will have it at all. Their ‘Smart Meters’ don’t even emit microwave. I am guessing they know microwave is quite damaging (?) otherwise they would have it. China have bank rolled the infrastructure for 70% of the UN countries infrastructure. ”
I am for science, but your musings are far from any science.
Magnus Johansson,
As a physicist, I strongly believe in the plausibility of Dr Pall’s theory of the biophysical mechanism whereby man-made EMFs (which, unlike the naturally occurring EMFs, are polarized and can thus induce coherent oscillations in extracellular ions) can activate voltage gated ion channels.
I recently read the Russian report that discusses the experiment on which Dr Pall relied to claim that millimeter EMFs penetrate the skull. I am of opinion that the experiment did NOT demonstrate the penetration of the 7.3 millimeter wave through the skull. The experiment was focused on determining whether human subjects could detect a sensation on their hand when a 7.3 millimeter wave was directed to a highly localised region of their hand for 6 minutes.
I will discuss in more detail later today.
Angela,
Regarding your statement;
“Did you also realise that MMWaves when used in medicine, do effect changes to the central nervous system.”
Can you please provide at least one reference so that I can read it.
Thank you.
Regarding Dr Pall’s claim about millimeter EMFs penetrating the skull: it is my opinion that Dr Pall has misinterpreted the experimental study. I will discuss in more detail later today.
Dariusz, you are pretending to be on the side of Science, but you are not.
The MMWaves deployed for 5G, 26-28GHz are in fact cmWaves, why don’t you point that out? Far more penetrating anyway. A narrow beam is going to be very damaging.
Whose idea was it to bathe populations in Microwave?
China have said they are racing and the UN started the race with the EGDI way back in 2010.
Aside from in Wuhan, China does not have MMWave, nor are they using the 26-28 GHz band that Huawei needed for IoT, so they will not have full 5G anyway. Not long ago China said they won’t have 5G until 2030. I don’t think they will have it at all. Their ‘Smart Meters’ don’t even emit microwave. I am guessing they know microwave is quite damaging (?) otherwise they would have it. China have bank rolled the infrastructure for 70% of the UN countries infrastructure.
So here we have the UN and China promoting and enabling 5G and building it across the world, yet having strict limits in China, Switzerland (UN) and Brussels (UN). If you look at the document ‘Obserevatory 5G’ you will see masses of 5G and IoT testbeds throughout Europe – they kicked off this year as planned by the UN Department of Economic and Social Affairs.
The UN also manage to run most of the media so the least you could do for humanity is to speak up with the evidence that Microwave is damaging – there is a truck load of evidence, it is not in debate.
Did you also realise that MMWaves when used in medicine, do effect changes to the central nervous system.
The damage you are doing to bringing the truth to light, will only damage you and yours.
Stick to putting up the Science, not bringing brilliant people down.
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That does not answer my question.
They know physics of millimeter waves interaction with human body.
So they have read the studies and dismissed them?
Yes
Do you mean it is impossible that they have missed this?
They know physics.
But what if the studies Martin Pall is referring to are unknown to the experts you have asked, Dariusz?
No. I have asked physics experts.
Dariusz: “No idea. You need to ask Pall.”
Have you not asked him?
No idea. You need to ask Pall.
I have found the video recording of Martin Pall in Mainz: https://kompetenzinitiative.com/mainz-2019/
From 22:25 to 23:26 in the video, Martin Pall refers to studies that show millimeter waves reaching through the skull. Where do I find those studies?
Dariusz: “Yes, e.g. talks last year in London, Mainz and Helsinki”
Do you have links to these?
Yes, e.g. talks last year in London, Mainz and Helsinki
Is there a video and sound recording of Martin Pall where he claims that millimeter waves penetrate e.g. the skull bone of a man?
Mike, no argument here. I was for long time already calling for moratorium on deployment of the 5G and for research on the possible health effects. Research has not been done and the story repeats because the same happened with first generation of this communication technology when it was deployed in 1980’s. No research was done prior to deployment but safety was just an assumption. With 5G is happening exactly the same.
However, my calling for moratorium is based on the fact that 5G was not tested and we do not have scientific evidence to show that 5G is safe or that 5G is dangerous.
Pall calls 5G is dangerous and claims it was proven. He does it without scientific evidence (because if research was not done then where from he gets his proof). Furthermore, Pall is scaremongering and claiming outrageous effects without iota of scientific evidence. Telecoms have called his bluff and now anyone who says that 5G should be examined is considered as Pall-like wacko. This is the legacy of spreading wacko deranged ideas that are not based on the available science.
Those, like myself, who oppose 5G deployment based on lack of research are a collateral damage, caused by wacko scientists like Pall and Firstenberg and their cult-like followers.
Bio-effects are systemic but millimeter waves penetrate only top layers of skin. Pall should know it. Pall also should know that scientists should not scaremonger, especially when science is ambiguous. Yet he does it. It is wrong.
The bio-effects go deeper. You know that, you must be paid up to try to discredit an actual expert.
Well done
I hope Dr Pall sues you.
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Clearly says studies and experiments are only done on some animals….not good enough!
I did not leave early the conference in Mainz. I was to the very end of the meeting. I have no idea where from you have this false information.
Anyone interested to discuss with me and dispute my opinions was welcome. I was available to anyone interested throughout the whole conference. In fact many participants came to discuss with me. Some agreed with my opinions, some not so much. I have no problem with that…
Lastly, what is your education and expertise in this area of science making you able to judge which scientific opinion is the better one? My education and expertise is available in my CV on my blog. You may disagree with my opinion but at leas I have basis to call myself expert…
As for support I am getting from George Carlo, he is scientist and has expertise to judge scientific opinions of other scientists. Apparently his judgement is that my opinions are OK…
I have not read all comments here, bocause of the lack of time. I am writing to the news paper about something else, and coincidently came to this blog in my search. I have recommended this blog earlier., but now I am not so sure anymore. I appreciate your engagement. I attended the conference. I could not cacth everything said, but I noted the following:
Dariusz Leszczynski had both applause, but was also one of two scientists met with protests, both from the audience, and from other scientists, because of his statements on this conference. You left the conference early, and did not hear all of them. The other one was Mikael Kundi, who was the only one to “declare conflict of interest”.
In addition to beeing unprecise and talk about things you were not an expert on, you – as the first speaker – made this conference an areana of conflict, that was shocking to me. I thought you stood together for the same cause, and George Carlo summed it up really well at the end, but he did not attend the conference, and did not hear what was said. That he of all gives you his support, is vary surprising for me.
I wrote down the following message from you: We don’t know if DNA-breaks produces genotoxisity. We don’t konw if 5G is harmful. We have not enough knowledge about fertility problems. All of these statements from you met critic on the conference from other scientist like Devra Davis, Martin Pall, Fiorenzo Marinello, and Mosgöller. And they also critizised your insinuation of the NTP study. By far – you got the most critic from other scientists in this meeting, and they were sorry that you did not stay to meet the critic.
I think you made some important philosofic points, but I think you presented your thoughts as facts, with more security then you had the backing for. You acted, like you do here, as a “besserwisser”, and the product of this is just that no one takes the names on the International EMF Scientist appeal serious. This blogpost has done great harm to the case, in my opinion.
Your point was that we must not claim more then we can document. But obviously you scientist does not agree, on any level, on what can be documented. As Martin Pall said to me, when I asked him if he was provoked by your speach (he came next): He just smiled and said: How many studies does he need?
You can not, like you do, claim that the other experts, that you share an appeal with, are wrong and without scientific background. This is exactly what our authorities wants us to believe! I just met them – face to face.
Do you really think that if Martin Pall is wrong in his prediction, this will harm the case?
About the brain function: It is scary – It was schocking. But Pall never said it is a fact. It is his concern. And yes – other scientist, like Kundi, brouht it up! Kundi said about Hermes studies 2019 «Es hat mich buchstablich vom Sitz gehaut» (he literally FELL OFF THE CHAIR when he saw the results for brain function!). And you were not there!
About the penetration of 5G: I never heard anyone say that it went through sculls etc. (may be I did not catch it). BUT: I heard many say it was an error that the effects stops in the scin- because of sweet ducts acting like antennas! It is called indirect effects. You were not there to listen to this or confront this.
My hope for the conference was that you and Kundi could come with a statement that redraws your claims, after having listen to all the other speakers. But in stead you serve this blogpost.
Dear Dariusz Leszczynski. This blog post is far more damaging than any alarm from any scientist regarding EMF exposure. We are 20 years delayed. You will delay us much further. I am very sorry about it.
Mr. Ahonen, if you prefer scaremongering over science, be my guest.
What is happening to you, Dariusz?
Why are you so angry and full of accusations?
You are losing your last supporters.
I will not read this blog or comment/write again . Ok.
BW,
Mikko
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Colin, there is a difference between “personal bickering” and “wake-up call”. I consider my blog to be a wake-up call. Some may thing it is a harsh way done but it has to be done in situation where for the last 6+ years nobody seemed to pay attention and problems has escalated to the point that someone had to say something…
George, if only that work could be done before the deployment…
George Carlo is right on the money. A collaboration in the tradition of large physics projects, like LHC or LIGO, is the way forward. The top independent scientists should band together and work out a comprehensive research and public awareness program, then attempt to get it crowd funded. I would pump in $100K, if it were done right. Getting bogged down in personal bickering is certainly NOT the way forward.
Note: Fine to publish this on your blog… NOTE: this opinion by George Carlo will be shortly published as a stand-alone guest blog, and will be accompanied by a brief commentary from Dariusz Leszczynski:
See BRHP blog site for the: “Guest Blog from George L. Carlo, stemming from the blog on Martin L. Pall, with commentary from Dariusz Leszczynski”
And millimeter waves do not go deep. They induce generation of mediators in skin that cause effects in internal organs. This is not what Pall was talking about. Pall made serious error, and numerous times he repeated it in his lectures. Millimeter waves do not penetrate through hair, skin and skull bone. End of story.
It seems easy to understand who is trying to rescue whom here. I would not argue about what Pall said on a conference I did not attend. I was, as Mikko and Stefan, arguing about wether real millimeter waves can go deep and have damaging effects on humans and for humans. That is for me the essence. The other details, I do not care to discuss.
No, you are talking about something entirely different from what Pall was talking. Yet another spin to rescue Pall from his own, repeated, mistake. Indirect effects were not what Pall was talking about. He said straight that millimeter waves pass through hair, skin skull and enter brain. This is not what you are talking.
Greetings to all, but Prof. Pall is right.
1. Mm-sine waves, of course, do not penetrate deeply. Cellular waves are completely different, they cover a broad frequency band from ELF. Second, strong signals behave very differently than weak ones.
2. Body tissue demodulates the signals. The body acts like a low pass. The low frequency components, in particular the ELF clocks of the cell radio penetrate therefore independent of the carrier frequency deep into the body.
3. The brain waves are known to be in the ELF range. Being weak, the brain can be forcibly triggered by technical noise (e.g., WLAN) as it continues. ELF is undoubtedly biologically active!
4. Mobile radio waves are coherent. The cell walls behave non-linearly at such low amplitudes (Kerr effect, Bragg grating, nonlinear optics), the higher the frequency. This means that mm-waves are biologically particularly dangerous and should be used with care in mobile communications.
5. At the Bragg gratings phase-conjugation of transversal radio waves produces longitudinally oscillating shock waves and in a further step scalar waves (energy conservation law). Through this, the effect (energy x time) can be much larger than the energy input.
6. Scalar waves behave physically like magnetic fields, they are not absorbed like measurable EMF, there is no skin effect.
7. Biophotons provide by radiation catalysis that the biochemical reactions in the cell run fast enough. The Bragg gratings are energetically pumped by the biophotons (four-beam interference), so they are always active in a healthy cell. As a result, even the weakest technical interference signals are amplified and disrupt the communication system of the body.
8. It follows that there are no safe “limits”, the division into thermal and nonthermal intensities goes beyond the problem. The biological effect depends on the frequency mixture (the mobile radio method) and on the lowest intensities. That decides if damage or healing. The mobile radio procedures must be carefully examined for suitability and possibly be suspended – because it works differently. It is negligent to consider only technical parameters and ignore biophysics.
9. Scalar waves are not considered in the antenna diagram so far, because they are not directly measurable. So far, they can not be calculated because Maxwell’s times did not know the spin, longitudinal, and scalar waves. Scalar waves also go out from the transmit antenna. Especially if no resonance-tuned antennas are used as with the smartphone.
10. The tendency to form scalar waves increases with the bandwidth of the mobile radio signal. That the larger the transmittable data rate, the more biologically undesirable effects are to be expected. However, since fast data transmission is required, it is not allowed to provide comprehensive coverage. There is another concept.
11. In practice, a mixture of the three types of electromagnetic waves is present in the body. With standing waves, all harmonics are created up to IR and even UV. This explains the sonoluminescence effect, breakage of gene sequences and degeneration of cell division during continuous irradiation. Constant dripping caves the stone, therefore disturbed calcium metabolism?
12. Microwaves satisfy neither the technical (bandwidth) nor the biological (compatibility) the requirements of a modern mobile phone. Coherent transmit signals should be visible (VLC) to avoid them being aimed directly at the body (which makes 5G intentional by beam sweep!). They should be of the lowest intensity, so that no non-linear effects occur and thus light pollution is avoided. ELF should be avoided. This is not a problem because cell timing in the ELF range is superfluous when supplied via info points (hotspots). The fiber optic network for 5G can be used directly, only the transmitter modules need to be replaced. VLC-retrofitted smartphones should only send in close range. If the fiber network is dense enough, the Infopoint solution does not limit comfort. Bright LEDs (street lights, traffic lights, car headlights) should not be used because of the nonlinear effects.
Stefan
Mikko, you, as well as Einar, are trying to put spin on what Pall said in his lecture. You are attempting to rescue his reputation. You attempts are naïve, pathetic and unethical.
Pall claimed in his lecture that millimeter waves can pass through hair, skin and subcutaneous tissue and bone of skull. This is fact. He said so. This was not just careless mistake. It was systematic error that Pall repeated in September in London, in October in Mainz and in Helsinki, and who knows how many times he repeated it in his earlier lectures.
Now, you are trying to spin his error and you are peddling an idea that millimeter waves can exert effects deep in the body so Pall was not so much “off target”.
Yes, millimeter waves can exert effect in internal organs and I wrote about it in my blog post. But millimeter waves do not exert these effects deep inside because they penetrate so deep. They exert these effects because they cause skin to generate molecular mediators that are distributed to internal organs with e.g. blood circulation.
Pall did not talk about it. He said straight that millimeter waves can penetrate into brain!
Your defense of Pall, is naïve, pathetic and unethical because you are trying to twist around what he said. To me it means that you are not trustworthy and ethical scientist when you resource to such machination.
Millimeter wave therapy has been originally developed in Eastern Europe already in 1960s and is based on using millimeter waves (MMW) on specific spots in a body. These (acupuncture) spots are often connected to other parts of the body and effect is remote (like irradiating a certain spot in the hand has an effect in the lung). Even in Ziskin’s papers this effect is mentioned.
Recommend reviews:
Rojavin, M. A., & Ziskin, M. C. (1998). Medical application of millimetre waves. QJM: Monthly Journal of the Association of Physicians, 91(1), 57–66. https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/91/1/57/1570406 –> PDF
Pakhomov, A. G., & Murthy, P. R. (2000). Low-intensity millimeter waves as a novel therapeutic modality. IEEE Transactions on Plasma Science, 28(1), 34–40. https://doi.org/10.1109/27.842821
Additionally, the research group in Israel has several times showed that sweat ducts can direct the MMWs deeper into the body . Below Einar Flydal in his response has nicely listed these studies by Feldman, Ben Issai and Co.
So, I don’t comment here Martin Pall’s work. I just would like Dariusz have more open discussion about millimeter waves and why they can have an effect deeper in the body.
Dariusz,
it seems to me (a social scientist from the telecom world having chosen to investigate this field of EMF and environmental impacts for the last 10 years) that your criticism against Pall is greatly exaggerated and uncautious: Pall is – at least in his writings – carefully making it clair that his scary scenarios are speculations within the realm of the unknown, but based on what we do know and can imagine COULD be the case by extrapolation, and therefore demands swift action. Not prioritizing the slow processes of the scientific communities when speed seems needed, may be a deliberate, strategic choice for which criticism is unjust.
On the contrary, such loosely founded criticism seems an overreaction is certainly a highly appreciated service to the the defenders of 5G, to which you do not adhere either.
Also, your statements that millimeter waves cannot create damage by deep penetration – and/or by influencing deeply – in humans (not to speak of what damage it can impose indirectly by first damaging insects), seems out of tune with the combined findings in the following papers from the same research group:
Yuri Feldman and Paul Ben-Ishai: Potential Risks to Human Health Originating from Future Sub-MM Communication Systems, unpublished note
Eli Safrai, Paul Ben Ishai, Andreas Caduff, Alexander Puzenko, Alexander Polsman, Aharon J.Agranat and Yuri Feldman: The Remote Sensing of Mental Stress From the Electromagnetic Reflection Coefficient of Human Skin in the Sub-THz Range, Bioelectromagnetics 33:375-382 (2012)
Eli Safrai,, Paul Ben Ishai, Alexander Polsman,, Sharon Einav, and Yuri Feldman: The Correlation of ECG Parameters to the Sub-THz Reflection Coefficient of Human Skin, IEEE Transactions On Terahertz Science And Technology, Manuscript received December 04, 2013; revised April 08, 2014, June 28, 2014; accepted July 15, 2014.
Itai Hayut, Paul Ben Ishai, Aharon J. Agranat, and Yuri Feldman: Circular polarization induced by the three-dimensional chiral structure of human sweat ducts, Physical Review E 89, 042715 (2014)
Noa Betzalel, Yuri Feldman, and Paul Ben Ishai: The Modeling of the Absorbance of Sub-THz Radiation by Human Skin, IEEE Transactions On Terahertz Science And Technology, Vol. 7, No. 5, September 2017
Noa Betzalel, Paul Ben Ishaia, Yuri Feldman: The human skin as a sub-THz receiver – Does 5G pose a danger to it or not?, Environmental Research Volume 163, May 2018, Pages 208-216, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.envres.2018.01.032
Anna Kochnev, Noa Betzalel, Paul Ben Ishai and Yuri Feldman: Human sweat ducts as helical antennas in the sub-THz frequency range-an overview, Terahertz Science and Technology,,ISSN 1941-7411 Vol.11, No.2, June 2018, Invited Paper
And my last question, do you think that Panagopoulos, Johansson and Carlo’s work regarding the forced oscillations of mobile ions by polarized emf’s is applicable in the case of mmW’s and other frequencies that make up 5G? Hot spots from multiple antennae are mentioned and depth of effects are calculated. Perhaps Dr. Carlo would like to speak to this as well. Some of the calculations are on waves in the gigahertz range. https://www.nature.com/articles/srep14914?fbclid=IwAR1lr4iuGTonmDP3wSEXaKlf9nQae0RsgYVxDEUj8nWS6L13WXq5t04EHgs
I have two other serious questions, not trying to deluge your comments. I wonder how conductivity of mmW’s affects the body. Also this article or another noted that tight clothes worn without a space them and the body affect absorption. Many people wear skin tight clothing these days. “In contrast to most fabrics, the human body can be considered a good conductor and strongly reflects and absorbs waves in the millimeter-wave range. ” https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/millimeter-wave
Is it incorrect to say that the effects of millimeter waves penetrate more deeply than industry admits? His slide says the effects, not the waves, right? Biochemical cascades and all of that? Having not personally heard Dr. Pall’s talk, I’m not sure how he explained his position, but did read this statement of his
and would appreciate any feedback. ” I think the answer is that the magnetic parts of the EMFs have been known for decades to penetrate much more deeply than do the electrical parts. The magnetic fields put forces on mobile electrically charged groups dissolved in the aqueous phases of the body and small individual movements of the charged groups can regenerate electric fields that are essentially identical to the electric fields of the original EMFs, carrying the same frequency and same pulsation pattern, although with lower intensity. An example of this is given in the Lu and Ueno [139] study. Because the voltage sensor is so stunningly sensitive to electrical forces and part of the reason for that is the very high level of amplification of the electrical field across the plasma membrane, we have an almost perfect way in which to produce EMF effects deeply within our bodies.”
Thanks George. I greatly appreciate your coming to support me. Indeed, unnecessary scaremongering as well as errors in substance are counterproductive and bad PR as they are easily dismissed by ICNIRP and industry scientists.
It was really pity that you were not able to be in Mainz in person.
Best, Dariusz
Dariusz: Hope all going well. Sorry to miss you in Mainz. Your summary slide was right on the mark. Also, I could not agree more with you about Martin Pall’s knowledge base. This is an example of misrepresenting the science that discredits the group. I have never met or spoken with him, so don’t know if he is correctable…. Hopefully, your piece is a wake-up call. Let’s catch up by phone some time. G_________________Dr. George L. CarloWashington, D.C.Personal: 571-276-4000
Hi Dariusz
At the conference in Mainz/Germany Brillouin precursors were mentioned. This is a physical effect which was discovered in waves emitted by military radar systems.
As I understand, mm waves from 5G phased array antennas can penetrate deep into tissues. Do you agree?
https://scientists4wiredtech.com/what-are-4g-5g/brillouin-precursors/
Best,
Stefan
Seems Samsung and Verizon millimeter waves can penetrate walls… They even made a video about the tests. 🙂
https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/verizon-remains-encouraged-by-millimeter-wave-propagation-analysts
“Millimeter waves can penetrate only epidermis and parts of dermis, no deeper.”
This might be true for the electrical part of EMF though in the near and even less defined very near zone of an antenna (i.e. some Smartphone at your head) we have large amounts of magnetic radiation. That will simply walk through everything, unless it is so called MU-Metall. Which is unfortunately not part of a human head.
Best regards
Michael Heiming